Stream Announcement
Hey everyone, I’m happy to announce that I’ll be playing Daemons on a commentated TTS stream tonight against Tom, a talented player (previous GT winner) and gentleman of the game. Tom will be bringing a brutal Black Templars list headlined by multiple units of Bladeguard Veterans backed by Plasma Inceptor and Eradicator shooting, while I’ll be running a Chaos Undivided list headlined by Mr. Chaos Undivided himself: Be’lakor. We will be using all the new rules and points values from the recent FAQs, so this will be your opportunity to come see how the game plays with the new changes.
The game will be hosted and commentated by Death or Glory Wargaming, and will stream on www.twitch.tv/deathorglorywargaming around 8 PM EST (on January 8th, for anyone viewing this post at a later date). Come check it out! Be sure to also give Death Or Glory some love while you’re there, they host online 40K tournaments and have very high levels of sportsmanship.
Daemons List
I’m going to present my current Daemons list, updated to reflect the changes of the latest FAQ. Discussion of the choices in the list will follow below.
Daemons Battalion (2027 points pre-FAQ, 1999 points post-FAQ)
Allegiance: Undivided
HQ Slot
- Belakor (Spell Selection: Infernal Gaze, Death Hex)
- Lord of Change, Warlord (Impossible Robe/Incorporeal Form/Lord of Flux Exalted Reward. Spell Selection: Infernal Gateway, Bolt of Change, Flickering Flames) (-1 CP for Exalted Reward)
- The Contorted Epitome (Forbidden Gem. Spell Selection: Symphony of Pain, Phantasmagoria) (-1 CP for extra relic)
Troop Slot
- 3 x 20 Bloodletters (Instrument, Banner, -1 CP for Banner of Blood)
- 2 x 10 Bloodletters
- 1 x 3 Nurglings
Elite Slot
- 1 x 1 Beast of Nurgle
- 1 x 6 Flamers
Fast Attack Slot
- 1 x 5 Furies (Mark of Slaanesh)
- 1 x 4 Plague Drones (Instrument)
- 1 x 4 Plague Drones
List Discussion
A lot of these units are standard Daemon choices by this point, but there are a few decisions that reflect how the FAQ has affected the game.
The first is the shift away from Beasts of Nurgle to Plague Drones. Plague Drones are a beloved unit in the Daemons fanbase, but they have always struggled to find a place since Beasts of Nurgle had both an extra wound and were cheaper. With Plague Drones dropping 5 points, there is now an argument to be made for them. Gaining extra mobility (+4″ Movement, Fly, and the ability to take an Instrument) and more reliable offense in exchange for losing a wound and heroic interventions feels like a fair trade. I’m excited to try them out and see how they do, although Marines are a tough matchup given their 0AP into common 2+ Saves.
Nurglings are still solid after their points hike, but 22 points per model is starting to look pricey for what they bring. I think you need one unit just to screen pre-game in some matchups (especially Raven Guard or against AdMech Raiders), but it’s going to be tough to still run 25-30 like many Daemon players have been doing. Bloodletters have impressed me every time I’ve run them, so I’m excited to try investing more heavily in them. I called them “one of the best units in the game” in my Khorne guide, and still believe that now.
Another tech choice is the decision to make the Furies Slaanesh. This isn’t an FAQ change, but I value the ability to have a mobile Aura of Acquiescence source (3″ -1 Attack debuff aura) over the slight durability buffs of Tzeentch or Nurgle.
The last tech choice is bringing Be’lakor. The Death Hex and re-roll 1’s aura are cool, but the secret sauce with him is his Infernal Gaze. Daemons suffer from having only one targetted Smite variant, Bolt of Change. This means that any enemy support characters aren’t in danger and can move freely. The combination of Infernal Gaze and Bolt of Change (with +1 MW) means that your opponent now has to try to hide his Characters, because approximately 2d3 + 1 Mortal Wounds could easily one shot any Characters.
Let’s see how it works in practice tonight on the Death Or Glory stream. Hope to see you there!
And as always: Stay safe, have fun, and may the Dark Gods bless your rolls.
Published: January 8th, 2021. Last updated: January 8th, 2021
Why so you play 2×10 Bloodletter? What do you want to do with them?
And what was the Deal with taking Daemonettes instead of Bloodletters?
And Last question. Could you write your thoughts on the Game because the analysis section of the Stream was cut short by the host.
Hey Katzophant, great questions so I’ll answer them together! Thanks for watching and supporting Chaos 🙂 I’m glad people got to see an experimental Daemons list in action against a top tier Marine player and a good battle.
Thoughts on the game are that Bloodletters are great, but just get cut down too easily by Plasma Inceptors and Vanguard Vet to invest so heavily into. I also made a crucial mistake on turn 3 by forgetting Belakor’s combat with the lone Vanguard Vet was in range of the Epitome’s aura, so I should have prevented the VV from falling back and opening up Belakor to Plasma-Ceptor shooting. The unbreachable terrain on the sides of the mid-board was actually very bad for the Bloodletter bombs, because it reduced my ability to get lots of bodies in and do touching/wrapping shenanigans. Wasn’t an unfair board, but if I was going to a tournament and knew this was their terrain setup, I wouldn’t bring a Bloodletter spam list.
In general, the analysis consensus was that I should have played more conservatively, which I agree with. That particular mission is so easy to score Primary on, I should have played more defensively to ensure I scored high on WWSWF and Raise Banners. People also thought the Plague Drones were a great touch, which I agree with–I look forward to experimenting more with my 2×4 Plague Drone units, they’re great for quickly clogging the mid-board.
The comment about Daemonettes was that if someone wants to run a horde of Daemon bodies, it has to be Daemonettes. Hordes of Bloodletters are fun and effective, but get drastically worse against top tier opponents that will screen impeccably and run lots Marine’s best units (PlasmaCeptors and Vanguard Vets) that hard-counter them. Daemonette hordes are more durable (bit cheaper, have access to -1 to Hit and -1 enemy Attacks in combat) and have additional ability to prevent Fall Back because they’re usually accompanied by Fiends. And the Quicksilver Swiftness is beautiful. I really suffered on turn 3 by not being able to Counter-Offensive once he slammed all my Bloodletters, getting free interrupts every turn is beautiful for melee scrum matchups
Thanks for the explanation.
Without the Epitome fail the Game would have looked different 🙂
But do Daemonettes have enough punsh?
I think 1×20 bloodletter with the banner was and is really good. After that though. Maybe, maybe I’d go 2×20 but bloodletters starting on the board have always disappointed me.
I assume you were trying to go pure daemons here, but what would you soup in next time? Some good MW output from TS or something else?