Early Impressions and Hot Takes About Daemons After 10 Games With the New Detachments (And a List For Each God!)

It’s a great time to be playing Daemons.

Okay, I know I’ve said “It’s a great time to be playing Daemons” before when many people might not have agreed, but seriously. It’s a great time to be playing Daemons. Daemons getting not one, but four new detachments was the best Christmas gift that Warphammer fans could have asked for.

The four God-themed detachments are all still relatively new… but if you are familiar with Warphammer at all, you know damn well that I’ve already gotten plenty of games in with all 4 of the new detachments already. I’m sure my opinion on them will keep shifting as I keep testing different concepts, but I’m starting to get a good feel for them and what is working. I’m also giving everyone a complete list for each detachment to start their playtesting with or inspire their own list writing.

Today at Warphammer, we’re going to do a quick temperature check on Daemons overall, and share some thoughts on each individual detachment. I’m also going to discuss a fundraiser that was held in the Warphammer community over Christmas, that perhaps my favorite thing that I’ve been a part of over my time in 40K. Without further ado, let’s jump into it!

Daemons Have SO MUCH Variety

With the God-themed detachment breathing new life into many previously niche units, we have to celebrate how deep the Daemons roster is right now.

I decided to do a quick experiment while writing this article. My hunch is that Daemons are one of the most diverse armies in the entire game, but I wanted to objectively (in a subjective way) measure how true this actually is. So I decided to find an answer to this question: What percentage of Daemons units are competitive?

Daemons have a total of 55 different units. Let’s exclude the terrain pieces from this discussion, which leaves us with 53 different datasheets. If you’re really excited to run Feculent Gnarlmaws and Skull Altars, you sound like an awesome person to hang out with, but you’ll also have to accept that GW doesn’t view faction terrain as a real part of 10th Edition for any army.

I went through all 53 datasheets and marked them as “Yes, I’d include them in the right competitive list” or not. The result?

46/53 of Daemon datasheets passed the test, so 87% of Daemon units are competitive. I don’t know how that compares to most armies, but that seems awesome. Basically everything is good!

Here is the complete list of “not competitive” units, and a brief note on why I excluded them. The funny thing is that I could honestly see myself finding a role for a few of them, and at least they’re almost all pretty cheap so they’re not anchors.

• Karanak
  • Khorne’s best boy! He just has an awkward role as a Leader for a unit (Flesh Hounds) that wants to be kept cheap to score and skirmish.
• Changecaster
  • Adding a minor offensive unit to either Horror variety still leaves them as pathetic offensively, but the Battleshock test is okay.
• Infernal Enrapturess
  • An Infernal Enrapturess actually opens up some sick plays on either side of Thieves Of Pain to resurrect onto objectives. Why is she on this list? She’s honestly fine. Are we all just forgetting she’s carrying a lascannon?
• Tranceweaver
  • Tranceweavers have direct anti-synergy with key Slaanesh detachment rules, but they’re still fine. The timing of their rerolls versus a Battle-shocked unit is awkward, but the fact the entire army (not just their unit) gets re-rolls is pretty wild.
• Blue Horrors
  • Fine, just way overcosted because GW doesn’t want to give Thousand Sons a good ally with Infiltrate. Blue Horrors really need a different cost as an ally than when taken in their original army, much like Imperial Agents have on some units.
• Exalted Seeker Chariot
  • I’d much rather have 2 individual Seeker Chariots than 1 Exalted Seeker Chariot, but Exalteds are solid. OC5 is a great number. I’m talking myself into Exalteds so I’ll just hit Publish on the article now because in 5 minutes, they’ll be off of this list.
• Hellflayer
  • Hellflayers are a good unit, just a bit too pricey.

So we’re at 46/53 competitive units, and almost all of the remaining 6 all have a role they can fill if you squint right. No matter what you have on your shelf, you can feel good playing Daemons. That is a great spot for an army to be in!

Daemons Have Five Good Detachments-Maybe the Most In The Entire Game

This is a crazy thing to think about… but Daemons legitimately might have the highest number of viable detachments in the entire game. This is extremely dependent on your definition of viable and your individual opinion of individual detachments, so I won’t say this for a fact, but it’s a conversation worth having! With all five of their detachments being unique and effective, Daemons have more good detachments than even armies with actual codices. The only armies that compare right now are Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, and Necrons, and Space Marines are basically cheating because they can theoretically pull from multiple codices. Regardless of how you would exactly rank armies by this metric, Daemons are definitely up there.

I also think Daemons are spoiled in the variety of our detachments. Some detachments are very killy. Some detachments are shooty. Some detachments are all about melee. Some detachments are all about board control. Whatever your Daemons playstyle, there is both a detachment that supports it thematically AND a detachment that will let you play that playstyle competitively. We are very lucky in that regards. Let’s savor this moment! It hasn’t always been like this, and Daemons have often felt like a forgotten army. I’m also not sure what the future holds for Daemons, and I can’t promise it’ll always be like this.

Before we dive into the individual God-themed detachments, I want to quickly talk about our Christmas day fundraiser, and a cause that’s very important to my heart.

Warphammer Christmas Fundraiser

One of the tough choices about having a platform is whether to use it for good and risk drawing people’s ire, or sit back and not rock the boat. My original plan was to wait for my platform to grow bigger, and my position in this community to become more secure, before sharing a cause that is very important to me. But the reality is tomorrow, or some better future, is never guaranteed for any of us. “Waiting for a better moment” is hugely overrated in the meta for life overall. If something is important to you, do it now.

I’ll keep this very short. There are some great organizations trying to provide support to the children of Palestine, who are going through a man-made humanitarian crisis that has been many, many decades in the making. The one that stood out to me was the Palestinian Children’s Relief Fund (PCRF). I understand most people reading don’t care so rather than sharing my own beliefs, I’ll just highly recommend the books 10 Myths About Israel by Ilan Pappé and the 100 Years War on Palestine by Rashid Khalidi. I bought copies because they had super long holds at the local library, and will happily loan them to anyone local interested in learning more.

That was why on Christmas, I decided to start a fundraiser for the PCRF and encourage it however I could. When I started off the fundraiser by donating $50, I as expecting us to hit several hundred in donations, maybe $500 if we had a good day. Instead, the Warphammer community showed why they are the best Warhammer community I’ve ever found.

We raised an absolutely incredibly $2,880 dollars for the PCRF!

I couldn’t be more thankful, and extend the biggest things possible from the bottom of my heart to everyone who contributed. I also want to thank the people who weren’t in a position to contribute financially currently, but sent positive messages and support. Without further ado, I want to give a big thank you to all of the following people who donated to the Warphammer PCRF Fundraiser so far:

Greg S, Thomas T, Sam P, Quin P, Chris Q, Tanzi R, Innes W, Bryce M, Yacine L G, Chris K, Alexandria DC, Patrick G, Dylan S, George G, Quoc L, Donovan B, Craig V, Hans V D E, Goon S, Ginger Jon, “James Workshop”, “Mamon Big Slammin” (my guy!), Sy R, Colin R, Jack B, Robert J, Jesse A, Luke R, Shawn F, Nick D, Gabriel B, Diogenes, and our 9 Anonymous friends!

Because Greg and Hans donated over $500 during our fundraiser, they each won the right to decide what I play at an event in January! Because of Greg, I’ll be playing the new Scintillating Legion, and because of Hans, I’ll be playing my take on Disciples Of Be’lakor. I already took a silly Disciples of Be’lakor list to an RTT a month and went 2-0-1, so I’m excited to see what kind of Disciples action I can cook up for Hans.

Do you want to show support for Warphammer and an amazing cause? Consider donating today. The fundraising link will stay open, and I’ve set up notifications so whether today, tomorrow, or a year from now, if anyone donates I’ll be notified and can make sure to give them thanks in our discord. https://pcrf1.app.neoncrm.com/warphammer40KPCRF.

This will be an open offer 24/7, all year round: If at any point someone donates $1,000 to the Warphammer PCRF fundraiser, they can pick what I play at an upcoming tournament and I’ll do a Warphammer article around it. I genuinely don’t care if what you pick is something absurd like 5 big Chaos Knights and I go 1-5, this cause is extremely important to me and I’ll be fundraising for it any way I can.

We now resume our regularly scheduled Daemons content.

Nurgle Daemons (Plague Legion)

Rating: 6 Poxes out of 7

Nurgle Daemons have (fly)blown me away in testing. This army is… really good?

The funny thing is that Nurgle Daemons have shifted from a stat-check in the index to a much deeper army. In the index, if you wanted to play Nurgle Daemons, I would recommend you play the 4 GUO + 3 Soul Grinder list. It wasn’t the most skill-intensive army, but basically anyone could get close to a 50% win-rate with it (and some talented players did far better than that).

In contrast, I think the Plague Legion is very skill-intensive, with the army looking directionless in less experienced player’s hands but looking like an absolute synergy monster with a well-tuned list in a talented player’s hands.

A lot of the datasheets are pretty anemic on their own, but they come together beautifully. Plaguebearers are 110 points for 20 T5/5++ wounds and 20 attacks at S4/AP1/1 damage with Lethal Hits on their own. That’s a great defensive profile per point, but mediocre damage. Now let’s go ahead and stack Sustained Hits and Critical Hits on a 5+, so you get Lethal Hits and Sustained Hits on a 5+. Now let’s go ahead and stack +1 to Hit. Now let’s go ahead and stack +1 AP. Now let’s go ahead and stack +1 Damage. And then for the hell of it, let’s throw full wound rerolls on top. Don’t forget a few Battle-shock tests at -1 that proc d3 Mortal Wounds or remove enemy models! Plaguebearers in Plague Legion are some of the hardest hitting infantry in the game per point. It sounds weird, but it’s true.

The amount of Battle-shock tests you can make your opponent take reaches a critical point where it actually impacts the game. You know what’s hilarious? Drawing Storm Hostile Objective, pointing to an opponent’s unit out-OCing you on an objective, making them take a Battle-Shock test, and scoring Storm Hostile Objective before you’ve even moved a model. The first time I played Plague Legion, my opponent passed their first eight Battle-shock tests at -1 that I made them take, including 5 tests in Cankleblight range, so I was a bit bummed out. But after a few more games, I’m becoming a believer.

Because the army is slow, lacks any mobility tricks (besides going through walls), and is very reliant on auras and buffs, it’s very unforgiving to positioning mistakes. I imagine some people are going to try the Plague Legion once, be disappointed, and not try it again. Don’t give up.

If you believe in our Grandfather, then he will believe in you.

Breakout Stars: Daemon Princes with Wings, Sloppity Bilepipers, Plaguebearers, Horticulus Slimux, Plague Drones

Plague Legion List

• Rotigus
• Great Unclean One with the Droning Shroud
• Winged Daemon Prince with the Font Of Spores
• Sloppity Bilepiper with Cankleblight
• Horticulus Slimux
• 1 x 6 Nurglings
• 4 x 10 Plaguebearers
• 1 x 3 Plague Drones
• 1 x 2 Beasts Of Nurgle
• 2x Soul Grinders

Slaanesh Daemons (Legion of Excess)

Rating: 6 Hedonists out of 6

Slaanesh Daemons have been gifted a truly beautiful detachment.

I remember when I first got into 40K in 8th Edition, I kept hearing from local guys that “Don’t collect Slaanesh, the ‘new’ GW is going to phase Slaanesh out of 40K, the aesthetic is too edgy for modern fans”. 6 years later, Slaanesh Daemons have the strongest ruleset I’ve ever seen them have and Emperor’s Children are going to be released this edition. I’m so glad that I ignore uninformed doomers and just always play whatever I want to play.

If you had asked me before this detachment came out what was the #1 buff Slaanesh Daemons needed access to, I would have said wound re-rolls. With a lot of attacks with Devastating Wounds and mediocre Strength, Wound re-rolls unlocks a lot of Slaanesh units and turns them into real damage dealers. The other thing I would have asked for would have been a way to Fall Back and Charge, because it was way too easy to tie up Slaanesh “melee units” like Keepers, Shalaxi, or Fiends with a Rhino or 10 Guardsmen. The fact that we got both of these buffs shows that someone in the GW rules team really put a lot of thought and understanding into this detachment, which I’m very appreciative of. This detachment feels exactly like I want Slaanesh Daemons to feel.

I’ll admit, Slaanesh is the detachment I have tested the least so far. That’s because all of my games against Daemons have been against Slaanesh Daemons, but also because I know this is a very strong detachment. I thought this was a very strong army when I first saw the rules. I played two games with the Legion of Excess, thought “yup, this is very strong“, and went back to testing the other 3 detachments which need a lot more playtesting to understand them.

The most important trick to master playing Slaanesh Daemons is to become elite at charge/fight phase tricks and fundamentals, and lining up your buffs and debuffs. I’m already one of the strongest players out there in those phases, so I feel less need to practice Slaanesh before taking them to GTs, but I highly recommend that anyone who is less experienced in those phases grinds out some reps. This is a very strong army but it can also go wrong very quickly if you mess up an interaction in a key moment. You’ll also want really fine tune your “feel” for when you can seductive gambit, and when you need to fight first. Can you afford to let that enemy unit fight your unit first? No? How about if you have Fiends and the Masque nearby for -1 to Hit and Wound? If the answer to the first question is no and the the answer to the second question is yes, are you dependent on any advance rolls or charge rolls to set up those debuffs? Is there a chance that your plan can go wrong if a unit fails a charge? Is there a chance your plan can go wrong if a unit rolls too high on a charge? Can you use a second unit to control where the opposing unit is allowed to pile-in so you’re free to Seductive Gambit without your hammer unit getting hit too hard? Can I use Thieves Of Pain to soak damage from off of my hammer unit?

The main question I’m testing is how important Be’lakor is. Slaanesh Daemons face the eternal question that all melee armies with melee shenanigans have to ask: What happens if the opponent just shoots us from far away? If you’re bringing a Contorted Epitome Daemonette “pain battery” to soak damage with Thieves Of Pain, even random trash Indirect Fire like a single Whirlwind or random Havoc Launchers from allied Brigands can be vicious. Be’lakor standing there like the twins from The Shining, begging the opponent to come play with us, sounds really appealing. He’s also the same cost as 9 Fiends or a Keeper with an Enhancement. It’s not an easy call.

Breakout Stars: The Masque, Fiends, Daemonettes, Tormentbringers on Exalted Seeker Chariots, Keepers

Tzeentch Daemons (Scintillating Legion)

Rating: 7 Plans out of 9

Can we take a moment and appreciate how hilarious this detachment is?

When it comes to a “weird” army like Tzeentch Daemons, my #1 question will always be “Do these rules feel as weird as I want them to?” In the case of the Scintillating Legion, the answer is loud bird squawking. I’ve been told that in Tzeentch speak, this means “hell yes”.

I haven’t played a single game with the Scintillating Legion where my opponent and I weren’t both laughing as we passed Flux Tokens back and forth, and there hasn’t been some emergent narrative that came up in game. This detachment is just so much fun.

In terms of strength, this detachment works well, but has some clear strengths and weaknesses. Delirium Unmade, the teleport stratagem that lets us pick up two units out of Engagement Range of the opponent, might be one of the most powerful single stratagems in the entire game. It really is that good. Flickering Reality, the stratagem that makes certain hit rerolls miss in melee, is hilarious when it works, and really hilarious when it really works. The enhancements are all excellent. I’ve beaten some very strong lists and players with the Scintillating Legion already in playtesting.

Despite all of the positives, I admit I’m a little nervous about the Scintillating Legion. The damage output is really mediocre, or at least very inconsistent on any single turn. If your opponent wants to play a “normal” game of 40K with you, you can beat them with your tricks. If your opponent wants to just rush at you… you can’t really do anything about that. My first game with the Scintillating Legion was versus a Slaanesh list that just rushed Keepers, Fiends, and Chariots at me. When I whiffed my first damage turn, I literally could not dig out of my deployment zone before I started losing all my resources and the game ended. Lists like an Ironstorm list that also say “do whatever you want, I’m just going to point big guns at the objectives and keep you in front of me” are also going to be a tough nut to crack. The fundamental issue with the Scintillating Legion is that the Tzeentch Daemon datasheets are all innately anemic. Once you realize that Lords Of Change are basically just a short-ranged Hellblaster unit offensively, a lot of the shine comes off.

That being said, don’t overcorrect the other way. This is a powerful and fun set of rules, and gives you a lot of room to outplay opponents. You’ll just need a lot of playtesting to find the Scintillating Legion list that works for you, and find the right balance of damage and shenanigans to beat the armies you expect to face. One of the biggest benefits of the detachment is just how weird it is, and the experience asymmetry you’ll have if you master Tzeentch Daemons. A great Tzeentch Daemons player will be really tough for your opponent to face.

Do you like the Scintillating Legion? Good news! I’ve been playing a lot of games with them lately, and they’ll be the first Daemon detachment I take to a tournament (a 30 player RTT this weekend). Check back next week for a tournament report with the Scintillating Legion!

Breakout Stars: Screamers, Kairos, Lord of Change with Infernal Puppeteer, Daemon Princes of both varieties, Soul Grinders, Burning Chariots

Scintillating Legion List

• Kairos
• Blue Scribes
• Changeling
• Daemon Prince with Improbable Shield
• Lord of Change with Infernal Puppeteer
• 3 Nurglings
• Plaguebearers
• Pink Horrors
• Burning Chariot
• 2 x 3 Screamers
• 2x Soul Grinders
• War Dog Huntsman

Khorne Daemons (Blood Legion)

Rating: 6.5 Skulls out of 8

I feel every single time a Khorne related ruleset comes out, the content creators say “the secret is that this isn’t a wild Khorne themed ruleset which rushes the enemy, it’s actually a nuanced board control army” and then smugly nods their heads as if they’ve discovered some pro secret that no one else is smart enough to figure out. Really creative stuff, all the “40K pros” out there.

Anyway, the secret to the Blood Legion is that this isn’t a wild Khorne themed ruleset which rushes the enemy, it’s actually a nuanced board control army.

I really like this ruleset. It has a few flaws, but it’s really fun to play. I also think it’s going to be a powerful defender in a Teams setting, because digging the Blood Legion out of a dense board is going to be a nightmare for opponents.

Both parts of the detachment rule are really good. Murdercall, a blood surge move whenever an enemy ends a Normal or Advance move within 6″ of a Khorne Daemon unit, is a great ability to hold objectives. This makes it a nightmare for enemy armies to contest objectives, because if a unit walks onto an objective to contest it then they’ll almost always be within 6″ of you by definition. Do note that because Engagement Range is within 1″, even if your opponent ends exactly 6″ away, you only need a 5 on your d6 roll, not a 6, to engage the enemy. Add in the fact that we have a stratagem to charge the opponent after they have fallen back, and anytime an enemy unit moves near a Khorne Daemon, they’ll be in serious danger. By the way, remember the same detail about being within 6″ applies to the Fool’s Flight stratagem to charge an opponent that fell back within 6″. If you base an enemy unit within 6″, when they Fall Back they are exactly 6″ away, so they are within 6″ and you can charge them. Lovely stuff!

The Blood Tainted rule to sticky objectives after killing an enemy unit on them is also very useful. The ability to sticky objectives (while doing something you wanted to do anyway) will save you from having to trade as many resources.

The biggest issue I’ve found is that Rendmasters are painfully less mobile here than in the index Daemonic Incursion detachment. And if the Rendmasters can’t apply their buffs where they need, the damage of many datasheets falls off of a cliff. Bloodletters with a Bloodmaster and even a single Rendmaster buff are some of the most vicious infantry in the entire game. Bloodletters without Rendmaster support will struggle into anything tougher than some Intercessors.

For that reason, I’m not 100% convinced that the Blood Legion is a better place to run an all-Khorne list than Daemonic Incursion. That doesn’t mean Blood Legion is bad-far from it. I’m just much higher on Khorne in the index detachment than most people.

I will say, once you try a Bloodthirster with full hit and wound rerolls from the Fury’s Cage enhancement, you’ll be absolutely hooked. Giving a unit of Bloodletters a 3+ Save with Sheathed In Brass has also felt excellent. This is one of those stratagems that I view similar to a CP re-roll: Most players probably use it too often, but it is an awesome tool to have in your back pocket. Sheathed In Brass literally doubles your Bloodletters durability versus the kind of weapons that normally scoop them up. What’s not to love?

Breakout Stars: Bloodcrushers, Bloodletters, Flesh Hounds, Rendmasters, Bloodthirsters

Blood Legion List

• Bloodthirster with Fury’s Cage
• Rendmaster on Blood Throne
• Rendmaster on Blood Throne
• Blue Scribes
• Plaguebearers
• Bloodletters
• Bloodletters
• 6 Bloodcrushers
• 6 Bloodcrushers
• 6 Bloodcrushers
• 5 Flesh Hounds
• 5 Flesh Hounds
• 10 Flesh Hounds

Final Detachment Rankings

If I had to rank these 4 detachments in power right now, here is what I would go with. Is there a chance these rankings change with more playtesting? Of course! Once we see what the “meta” (I really dislike that word) ends up being and what enemy armies we are most likely to face, I also imagine that the power level of these Daemons detachments might change because they’re good into different things.

1. Slaanesh Daemons (Overall Tier: A+)
2. Nurgle Daemons (Overall Tier: A)
3. Tzeentch Daemons (Overall Tier: A-)
4. Khorne Daemons (Overall Tier: B+)

Final Thoughts

It’s always a good time to be playing Daemons. I can’t wait to keep testing each of these amazing detachments, and unlocking all of the secrets of the Dark Gods.

This weekend, I’ll be taking Tzeentch Daemons to an RTT, my first tournament with the new rules. Check back next week for a Scintillating Daemons tournament report, and a much deeper dive into the wild world of Tzeentch Daemons!

As always, have fun, stay safe, and may the Dark Gods bless your rolls.