In this article, we’re going to break down literally every single change Daemons received in this Dataslate, MFM, and Index update. There’s a lot going on. You’ve come to the right place to understand it all.
We’re going to get very detailed. We’re going to get excited about many things. And we are going to have a very cathartic rant in the Slaanesh section.
Before we get started, let’s address the elephant in the room: Disciples Of Be’lakor are finally here!
I want to set expectations for this writeup: I’m not going to really discuss Disciples Of Be’lakor here. I want to get a few games in with them first, and already had my first game last night. What I will say is Disciples has a few flaws in terms of flavor and rules, but is both incredibly strong and fun and we’re all going to have a lot of fun with it at all levels of play. Hang tight, and some Disciples Of Be’lakor content will definitly be hitting Warphammer soon!
First, I’ll start with my thoughts about the implication of no Daemons codex in 10th, and what I think about the future of Daemons.
The Future Of Daemons
First of all, I want to make one thing clear: I don’t have any inside info on the future of Daemons in 11th Edition and onwards. If I did, I certainly wouldn’t be talking about in a public article. These are all my own independent thoughts. I don’t directly talk to anyone who makes these decisions. Give my thoughts no more or no less weight than they deserve.
GW made it clear that we aren’t getting a codex in 10th Edition in their article about the latest dataslate. Frankly, I was 99.999% certain this was happening for a long time. That is an objective fact we now know for certain. I also want to make it clear that this is the only fact we know for certain. It’s a fallacy to think that because one fact is confirmed, every wild conclusion people draw from that fact is also confirmed.
It’s clear that between faction reshuffling (Harlequins back into Aeldari, for example) and a massive culling of datasheets from many factions and removing entire phases from the game, GW was really experimenting with big changes to the game in 10th Edition. One of those ideas considered was probably removing Daemons as a standalone faction. It’s also very clear that GW is becoming more receptive to feedback than ever before. Look at Deathwatch. They were an army, then they weren’t an army, and now they are an army again.
Codices are planned incredibly far in advance, and if we’re not getting one in 10th Edition, that means that was pretty much the plan from the start of 10th Edition. To me it seems clear that GW considered squatting Daemons in 10th Edition. Well, not full squatting them, but rolling them into allies for God Legions like what happened with Emperor’s Children.
Here’s where I disagree with all of the Daemon doomers. There was a passionate argument back and forth among Daemon fans for a long time about whether they will get a codex, because in their minds, the conclusion is if we don’t get a codex than that means Daemons are dying. But that is not necessarily true! It’s possible we don’t get a codex in 10th AND GW keeps us around for a long time and gives us support in future editions, including codices
Think about it logically: Harlequins got “squatted” this edition. They had a codex in 9th Edition. If Daemons had gotten a codex in 10th Edition, would all the “Daemon hopers” be justified in saying everything is fine and its proof that Daemons will be around forever? No. So then I ask “Daemon doomers” to be logically consistent and not say that Daemons will be squatted in 11th because they’re not getting a codex in 10th.
GW has pulled factions in and out of the game before. We have made it extremely clear to GW in 10th Edition that we’re a fanbase that buys models, attends the events, and will very vocally advocate for our faction. If GW considered rolling Daemons out from the game, I hope they’ve changed their mind, and I’m seeing positive signs that they have.
Let’s also be objective: Daemons have not 1, but 6 different well-thought out and powerful detachments in 10th. We just got a sweeping set of datasheet updates like what happens when armies are getting a codex in 10th. Daemons have a 10th Edition codex in everything besides the privilege of paying $60 for it. We’re doing incredibly well and have had a ton of attention paid by GW to us! It really doesn’t seem like we’re going anyway.
To summarize my thoughts: I think as 10th Edition was being planned, GW considered squatting Daemons as a standalone faction, like what happened to Harlequins and Deathwatch. I’m not in denial about this. I’m not scared to say this: The future of Daemon was probably very uncertain at the time. They weren’t planning to give Daemon a lot of rules support in 10th, as shown by not having a codex planned.
And then as 10th went along and GW is continuously making changes and getting new ideas about how they want their game to look, they changed their minds and decided to keep supporting Daemons as a faction. I think the odds of Daemons not being a supported independent faction in 11th Edition are very thin. And frankly I’m not going to try to speculate about 12th Edition and onwards because so much can change between now and then.
I can’t promise you that Daemons will always be around, but I also can’t promise you anything about tomorrow. I honestly feel quite good about their future. None of us know for sure, so at the very least stop being so toxic to each other about it! It’s such a popular discussion because it gives it gives random youtubers and commenters the chance to feel like “GW insiders” and it gives them something to talk endlessly about without exposing the fact that they don’t play this game and know nothing about Daemons now or in the future.
Glad to get that off my chest, and hopefully provide a counter voice to all of the Daemon dooming. I will also make one thing very clear: I will always be 100% honest with you. If I thought Daemons were going to get squatted soon, I would say that. I completely tear apart GW in the Slaanesh section later in this article. I just genuinely feel confident that I’ll be able to keep playing Daemons for a long, long time.
Now let’s talk about specific Gods in this latest update. In no particular order, let’s start with both the angriest and most honorable of the Chaos Gods: Khorne.
Khorne
Khorne got an amazing set of changes, almost all of them buffs. This is the exact shot in the arm Khorne needed to reach the next level, and I couldn’t be more excited to play Khorne in both the Blood Legion and Daemonic Incursion detachments.
Skarbrand

- Much better flamer (5/0/1 to 8/1/1)
- +2″ Movement (8″ to 10″)
- Improved Armour Save (4+ to 3+)
- Rage Embodied ability lost Monsters/Vehicle limitation
- Murderlust changed from aura requiring a Leadership check to Fall Back, to Skarbrand always advances and charges
What an incredible glow-up for Skarbrand!
Skarbrand was already a solid datasheet, but he has officially hit the next level here. His potential movement before charging literally doubled, going from 8″ to 10+d6″ inches. The 3+ Save is going to be a big help versus the volume of low AP attacks that can wear even big Daemons down. Rage Embodied losing the restriction on not working on Monsters/Vehicles means not only does Skarbrand help Bloodthirsters and Daemon Princes and Soul Grinders, but he just gets +1 Attack himself to go up to 9 6-damage attacks, and 11 6-damage attacks when he is bracketed.
Skarbrand’s increased on-board mobility is going to be most valuable in Blood Legion, but he definitely can fit into both detachments.
Bloodthirster
- Lash Of Khorne gains 1 AP
- Axe Of Khorne strike profile changes from d6 damage to d3+1 damage
- Improved Armour Save (4+ to 3+)
The main change for Bloodthirsters is gaining a 3+ Armour Save to gain more protection versus low-AP volume attacks. That is very welcome, especially for a monster which can be hard to physically hide.
The weapons changes are minor, and honestly don’t really matter. The Lash Of Khorne going from AP0 to AP1 is cool. The Axe Of Khorne’s strike profile going from d6 to d3+1 damage is a sidegrade. The average is a bit lower (3.5 to 3 damage), but d3+1 is a bit more consistent. The reason this doesn’t really matter is the Great Axe Of Khorne is still significantly better, and you’re never going to replace the Great Axe Of Khorne with the Axe Of Khorne and the Lash or Flail.
Bloodthirsters were already solid. Gaining a 3+ Save makes them even better.
Skulltaker and Bloodmaster
- +2″ Move (6″ to 8″)
Skulltaker and Bloodmasters gaining some on-board mobility is a very nice boost to their value in Blood Legion especially, but they otherwise stay the same. Both are still excellent leaders for Bloodletters, and Skulltaker can even get some work done by himself.
Bloodletters
- +2″ Movement (6″ to 8″)
- Reroll wounds ability changed to forcing Desperate Escape tests on non-Monsters/Vehicles
Bloodletters’ ability swap is a sidegrade. Let’s make one thing clear: Bloodletters’ former ability to get full wound rerolls versus units below Half-Strength was just not real. What Bloodletters lost is reroll 1’s to wound all the time. That’s a bit of a bummer, but it’s not a big deal. Forcing Desperate Escape tests is not a great ability either, but it will come up occasionally. +2″ Move is really valuable for their usage in Blood Legion and Shadow Legion.
Skullmaster
- Improved Armour Save (4+ to 3+)
Much like with Skarbrand and Bloodthirsters, getting an improved Armour Save is a very welcome boost to a Skullmaster’s defense against low AP attacks. Skullmasters are still a bit pricey at 100, but a unit of Bloodcrushers led by a Skullmaster is very powerful.
Bloodcrushers
- Improved Armour Save (4+ to 3+)
- Reduced Invuln Save (4+ to 5+)
Bloodcrushers got a very interesting change, which ends up being a very slight overall nerf that doesn’t affect their overall strength. Moving from a 4+/4+ to 3+/5+ means they’re a bit more durable versus chip damage but less durable versus high AP damage. The scam potential of Bloodcrushers where they randomly make 5 straight invuln saves versus meltas has gone down. The important thing is not to overthink this change: 4 wounds at T7 with a 3+/5++ is a great defensive profile and they’re a powerful unit still.
One detail to appreciate about Bloodcrushers: Almost all charge MW impact stratagems in 10th Edition at this point are on a per-model in Engagement Range basis. The Bloodcrushers’ ability is per-model in the unit, so if a single Bloodcrusher in the unit reaches the enemy on the charge you can still roll a 4+ for every model in the unit (including a Skullmaster). I was expecting this to change if Daemons ever got an update, so it’s really cool to see that their charge mortals haven’t changed.
Flesh Hounds
- Ability to Heroic Intervene replaced with the ability to leave into Strategic Reserves at the end of the opponent’s turn
- +5/10 Points from 70/140 to 75/150
Flesh Hounds went from one of many “fast scoring pieces that can do a tiny bit of damage in a skirmish” in the Daemons codex to one of the most versatile units in the entire game! Being able to teleport at the end of the opponent’s turn is just brilliant.
Where this is incredibly valuable is in Blood Legion. Blood Legion didn’t have any ability to teleport units, which meant they had more difficulty scoring on turns 1, 4, or 5 than most other Daemon detachments. Bringing Flesh Hounds gives Blood Legion the strength and shenanigans of Khorne combined with the teleporting scoring ability of Daemonic Incursion or Scintillating Legion or Shadow Legion.
Flesh Hounds also kept their 3+++ Feel-No-Pain versus Psychic Attacks, which remains one of the funniest abilities in the game. Don’t mess with our dogs, you psychic nerds.
Hot Take: The best unit in Khorne is units of 5 Flesh Hounds. The second best unit in Khorne is units of 10 Flesh Hounds. My only disappointment is that we can’t run more than 3 units.
Karanak
- Removed from the game
Did you know that Karanak would cross into Realspace and leap across time to chase down cowards, and would bring their skulls back to Khorne like a cat bringing dead mice to their owner? What a cool unit!
Karanak was the most loyal dog in the Warp, and we will always love Khorne’s best boy.
Khorne Final Thoughts
You’ll notice that in most of these Khorne writeups, I mentioned that the change is especially valuable for Blood Legion.
Blood Legion is biggest winner of all of the Daemon detachments. It has gone from “Hmmm, better than people think” to “Be really scared of a good Blood Legion player”.
I can’t wait to play Blood Legion. I loved every game I played with it before these upgrades, and it will really function as a powerful and well-rounded detachment now.
Nurgle
The Plaguefather is the gift that keeps on giving, and Nurgle got some very spicy updates this time around.
Great Unclean One
- Feel-No-Pain aura replaced with a +1 Toughness aura
- Gains a 6+++ Feel-No-Pain
- Bilesword strike profile increase from S8 to S10 and damage D6 to D6+1
- +20 Points to 250
Great Unclean Ones get a massive shot in their rotting arms, and it’s enough of a boost to elevate the entire Nurgle roster.
If GUO’s did a straight swap of their Feel No pain aura for a +1 Toughness aura, it might be a conversation about how much of a buff this really is. A GUO would have more toughness but wouldn’t have a Feel-No-Pain anymore. The fact that GUOs gained the +1 Toughness aura and also kept the effect of the Feel-No-Pain aura on themselves by getting it as an innate rule is just brilliant.
+1 Toughness helps so many Nurgle Daemons hit key breakpoints. Soul Grinders go up to T12. Beasts of Nurgle go up to T10. Nurglings go to T4. The swap is neutral for Plaguebearers (I’m not certain T6 is better than T5 with a FNP because the FNP broke the math on very common 2-damage weapons), but it’s an overall boon for the Nurgle roster.
Let’s also not underestimate the buff to the Bilesword. Previously, the best a single GUO could ever wound a T10 unit in melee was on a 5+. Now, going up to S10 means they can wound T10 on a 3+ with their -1 Toughness ability, and even a 2+ with a Lance stratagem in Disciples of Be’lakor. The extra damage adds both more upside and consistency.
I’m a huge fan of Great Unclean Ones, and they’re worth heavy consideration in any Incursion, Plague Legion, or even Disciples Of Be’lakor lists.
Rotigus
- Gains a 6+++ Feel-No-Pain
- Range of his Virulent Blessing +1 Damage ability increased to 24″
- Gnarlrod melee Strength improved
- Deluge Of Nurgle debuff aura only gives -2″ Movement and -1 OC now
- +20 points to 250 points
Rotigus moves from strength to strength. On the one hand, he got slightly nerfed. His Deluge Of Nurgle aura nerf is sadly very real. It basically meant that Rotigus would hold an objective versus any single model in the game (with a few tiny exceptions like Tyranid Norns or Mortarion). On the other hand, getting an innate Feel-No-Pain means he’s even more durable when brought as an ally or operating independently. And the biggest indirect buff to Rotigus is the buff to Great Unclean Ones that helps him reach T13 when standing next to his friends.
Nurglings
- -1 to Hit in melee aura is no longer an aura, and only works on units in Engagement Range
- -1 to Hit in melee ability now works on Monsters and Vehicles (not Titanic)
- -5/10/15 to 35/60/90
The Nurgling change is interesting. Their ability not being an aura means they are way worse at protecting friendly units. This will be particularly strongly felt in Death Guard, where they could stack Nurglings with the -1WS Contagion to effectively make Custodes as accurate in melee as Guardsmen. Do note that you can still use Heroic Intervention to get your Nurglings into relevant combats for the debuff, because it affects enemies in Engagement Range even if they attack other units. On the flipside, Nurglings debuffing Monsters/Vehicles in melee now is huge. This gets absurd in DOB, where they can stack -1 to Hit with -1 to Wound to be the most frustrating screen in the game. Here is a fun fact: A War Dog Karnivore doesn’t kill 3 DOB Nurglings on average.
And Nurglings went down in points? Someone at GW is taking good care of our Little Lords this edition!
Beasts Of Nurgle
- Gained the Scouts 6″ ability
This is an extremely welcome change, and one that makes a lot of sense. In the lore, Beasts Of Nurgle are basically just big puppies that want to go play with people. Why not give them the ability to Scout and get closer to the fun?
This also makes Beasts Of Nurgle a truly elite tempo piece (arguably the best in the game). A Beast Of Nurgle scouting and then walking onto an objective asks the opponent a wild question: How much do you commit to kill a Beast Of Nurgle? Whatever they say, it’s either way undercommitting or way overcommitting.
Nurgle Final Thoughts
I think people are slightly overstating the Nurgle glow-up, but there is a lot to be happy about here. If you were running mono-Nurgle, the Beasts Of Nurgle change in particular will be a huge boon to your early game scoring.
Anyone that read my Plague Legion guide knows how much I love playing Nurgle Daemons, and I’m very excited to keep the good times rolling with all of these interesting changes!
Slaanesh… But First, A Rant
I’m going to get real with everyone for a second.

First, I want to acknowledge that Daemons have been treated extremely well over the course of 10th Edition. For most of the edition before the Legion Of Excess detachment came out, I was particularly happy with how Slaanesh Daemons treated. Datasheets had some flaws but I really couldn’t complain. Not many people ran Slaanesh Daemons, but they had some diehard supporters and could do cool stuff on the tabletop.
Now, let’s pivot to what I really want to talk about in this section.
GW’s treatment of Slaanesh in this update should be an embarrassment to them. I genuinely feel awful for mono-Slaanesh players and wish I had something positive to tell you. I don’t. But what I do have is a promise that I know how you’re feeling and you have every right to feel that way.
What GW did to Slaanesh in this update is not just razing them to the ground, but salting the earth too. I can only imagine someone on their rules team began every meeting by saying, “Slaanesh must be destroyed”, and that person finally got their way.
Future updates might make Slaanesh playable because they get so many points increases that you can just spam bodies. But the fundamental issue is that the datasheets themselves have not only been nerfed, but some of their iconic and most flexible units were entirely removed. And yes, the points are silly right now.
Let’s take Keepers, for example. Maybe GW was upset with Keepers being so tanky and they wanted to remove the Feel-No-Pain. In a vacuum, I would get that. Slaanesh should be all about being a glass cannon, right?
Where is the fucking cannon in our glass cannon?
Keepers can’t kill 10 Guardsmen (7 on average). Keepers can’t kill Terminators (2 on average). Keepers can’t kill Rhinos (7 wounds on average). What the fuck are Keeper Of Secrets supposed to do in 10th Edition?
If GW is redoing datasheets, this would have been the perfect time to improve the Strength of Keepers’ weapons or give them some cool new rule. Instead, we get an… Armour Save, which is the least interesting possible buff for a “lithe but deadly” unit.
GW’s treatment of Contorted Epitomes is emblematic of how absolutely clueless this balance update is.
Contorted Epitomes are a brilliant model, but they had been entirely ignored all of 10th Edition at 80 points because the datasheet just doesn’t really do anything. When Legion Of Excess came out with the Thieves Of Pain stratagem, Contorted Epitomes suddenly became very useful because their unit could soak damage from another unit as Mortal Wounds and then use their 4+++ Mortal Wound shrug to make that damage “disappear”. This was a very dumb and frustrating interaction for opponents. This interaction where you soak damage from another unit (after they are hit, wounded, and fail their invuln save) and then literally make that damage evaporate 50% of the time onto a Contorted Epitome was game-warping and needed to disappear.
GW”s solution?
Contorted Epitome +20 points but keeping the ability to soak damage onto a Contorted Epitome + Daemonette squad and shrug it half of the time.
This is literally the worst of both worlds! They kept the toxic interaction, but nerfed Contorted Epitomes for anyone who was using them in any other detachment where they aren’t toxic! If you’re running Legion Of Excess, you’re still going to bring a Contorted Epitome + Daemonette squad because that interaction is insane and still worth the points. And your opponents are still going to hate it. If GW had simply made it so you couldn’t use a Feel-No-Pain on any wounds soaked by Thieves Of Pain (the obvious right choice), Contorted Epitomes would have been completely fine.
This pattern can also be seen with Fiends.
Fiends were fine before Legion Of Excess. Some people ran them, most people didn’t, they were one of many totally fine units in the codex.
In Legion Of Excess, Fiends were busted because of several interactions (primarily reroll Wounds and being able to shrug damage onto other units to make up for their fragility). LOE Fiends absolutely needed a nerf.
In this dataslate, GW took LOE apart to the point no one will run it anymore. And then for good measure, they randomly gave their datasheet rule a big nerf! That’s frustrating. Fiends are somehow way worse off than they were before LOE came out. That’s a bit of a bummer for a really cool unit, but maybe they’ll get some points drops…
FIENDS WENT UP IN POINTS AFTER ALL OF THIS?!?!? They’re now way worse than they were before LOE came out!
GW just has no ability to separate the strength of a detachment from the strength of a unit and apply buffs and nerfs in a targetted way. Just baffling.
I cannot see a single justification for removing all Slaanesh chariots in the middle of an edition. Absolutely none. This is a plastic kit that was still being sold by GW. This is just an abysmal choice. If the timeline for removing Slaanesh Chariots was pushed up because of Legion Of Excess being broken, that would be the dumbest possible reason of all. GW is just getting way, way, way too comfortable removing people’s units from the game.
And for the record, I was calling for huge nerfs to Legion Of Excess. I probably wouldn’t have done exactly what GW did, but I am completely fine with the concept of a massive nerf to LOE rules. I literally said several times in the Warphammer discord that it was a game-warping detachment and I was extremely ready for a huge LOE nerf, and welcomed it so Daemons didn’t catch flak overall. I talk with several of the best Slaanesh Daemon players in the world in the Warphammer discord, and I heard them say several times they were probably going to have to pivot to Daemonic Incursion again after LOE gets taken apart completely.
Now, they’re not even interested in playing Slaanesh at all anymore. It’s a bummer to see.
Whatever, let’s talk about some units and just be done with this section.
Shalaxi Helbane, Our Beautiful Queen Of Murder
- Bunch of bullshit
- 10% points drop, lol

Keeper Of Secrets
- Losing the 5+++ Feel-No-Pain
- Gaining a 3+ Armour Save, an equivalent and equally useful ability for a unit with a 4++ invuln
- 10 point drop (290 to 280)
- Seriously, what the hell

Daemonettes
- Lost Hit rerolls
- Gained the Fights First ability
- Force opponents in Engagement Range to take Battleshock tests
This is actually fine and maybe even an upgrade.
Random Characters
- I’m done with this Slaanesh section
- Gained the Fights First ability
- Tranceweaver gives old Daemonette hit rerolls
I can’t believe I waste my time on this dumb game sometimes.
Fiends
- I said I was done with the Slaanesh section and I meant it.
Why do we play this silly game? Anyway I’ve been really enjoying Tzeentch heavy builds lately, and am excited to talk about the Tzeentch section!
Tzeentch
Tzeentch quietly got some interesting changes, and there is a lot for Tzeentch players to be happy about!
Kairos Fateweaver
- Kairos’s CP generation was changed to a Leadership check if he is on the battlefield at the end of your Command Phase
This is a great change. Honestly, I forgot to roll for Kairos’s ability half of the time. This new change greatly simplifies it and adds more consistency over th course of the game. There are just a few important things to note.
First, it’s a Leadership check, and Shadows only affects Battleshock tests. Kairos doesn’t get +1 to this test for being in his own Shadow Of Chaos, so it’s a natural 6+ on 2d6 barring other Leadership modifiers. The second is that he has to be on the battlefield in your Command Phase to make the test. If you’ve teleported him in Daemonic Incursion or Scintillating Legion, you can’t make the check while he is off the board and waiting to come back down. It’s a great ability, just make sure you don’t accidentally misplay it in your favor!
The Changeling
- Gained the Stealth ability
I’m a bit surprised he didn’t already have it because he’s already so hard to attack! Gaining Stealth is a solid for the sneakiest Lone Operative out there, and adds yet another layer of defense behind his Formless Horror and Mischief and Confusion abilities.
Fateskimmer and Burning Chariot
- Screamers updated to match Screamer profile from last update (3+ WS, Anti-Monster/Vehicle 4+)
Finally! This is an extremely welcome change. Not many people noticed, but it was quite annoying that Screamers attached to chariots operated differently than Screamers by themselves. All of Tzeentch’s flying stingrays are now equally as effective in combat, and it’s a welcome buff to some very cool units.
I love these kinds of updates that don’t have any impact on the power level of a faction, but show GW paid attention to player’s complaints. Well done.
It’s a huge shame they never fixed the equivalent issue on the Hellflayer claws before squatting them, but we’ll keep things positive here in the Tzeentch section.
Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors
- Gained the Pistol keyword on their ranged attacks
This is a really cool idea, and one that plays into exactly how Horrors want to play! Just like the change to Screamers on the Tzeentch chariots, it’s cool to see a change that makes you feel real thought was put into the unit.
Horrors are a tarpit. It makes sense that they’ll swarm the enemy and then keep pumping out their magic shots. Their guns are still pretty weak, but that’s honestly fine. Horrors aren’t there for damage. This will now just let them put little nibbles of damage into the opponent while they’re doing what they want to do.
Flamers
- -10/20 to 65/130
This is a really spicy change! Flamers were already used sometimes. Much like Horrors, their guns are mediocre, but they provide a lot of utility. And yes, sometimes they’ll roast some Elves and you’ll really get your point’s worth.
Exalted Flamers weren’t directly changed, but they got indirectly buffed by the buff to Flamers. A 20 point drop on a big Flamer brick is roughly a 10% drop to the overall Flamer brick + Exalted Flamer package. That’s a really cool unit! They are fast, can always advance/fall back and shoot, can clean out trash in both shooting and overwatch, and have a huge pool of 4++ wounds. The opponent has to really commit to remove it since they can’t slow it down, and that gives you the opportunity to scam their damage with your invuln saves and 3-wound bodies. It’s a very flexible unit, and one I plan to experiment with soon.
Undivided
There was only one change to an Undivided datasheet, but what a change it was!
Be’lakor, The Dark Master
- Improved Armour Save (4+ to 3+)
- +2 Wounds (18 to 20)
- +1 Toughness (10 to 11)
- +1 Attack in melee
- Replacing Lethal Hits with Devastating Wounds in melee
- Kept his 18″ unshootable aura, but the 2 other auras got updated and are much more interesting:
- Aura of reroll 1’s to Hit for Daemons and Disciples
- 9″ Aura of making opponents take Battle-shock below Starting Strength, and Be’lakor heals d3 when an enemy fails a Battle-shock test within 9″ of him
- +50 points (325 to 375)
One of the complaints about Be’lakor was that he provided amazing synergy for Daemons players, but his actual datasheet was disappointing in terms of both offensive and defensive power. That has absolutely changed with Be’lakor’s new datasheet. He got a huge upgrade, but paid a (fair) cost in points for his new power.
The upgrade I’m most excited for are his new auras. You’ll still start most games in the 18″ unshootable aura, but both other auras are very, very good. Reroll 1’s to Hit provides a much needed consistency boost for Daemons, who have very limited access to Hit rerolls otherwise. His Battleshock aura is also great, and you have to keep it in mind because it can be a gamechanger if you switch into it at the right time. It’s hard for a Battleshock aura to be useful by itself, but between the fact it provides very wide coverage (9″ aura!) and can heal Be’lakor means this is a great option to have.
His defensive boosts are also very welcome. T10 -> T11 isn’t an amazing breakpoint, but it can be huge in the right matchup. For example, it’s a huge durability buff against Dark Reapers.
Final Thoughts
I always say this, but it’s especially true now: It’s a great time to be playing Daemons. Unless, of course, you play Slaanesh.
The meta will be warped by Orks (they’re not as busted as people say, they’re even more busted) but other than the Ork matchup, I really do like Daemons’ chances into basically every army in the game. We got lots of quality of life updates in this dataslate that will motivate Daemons players (not you, Slaanesh players) to get back on the tabletop and keep experimenting. That’s exactly what we want!
And seriously GW, stop squatting units in the middle of an edition. I’m tired of hearing from friends that they were hyped for a dataslate, but got really bummed when some of their favorite units entirely disappear instead.
As always, have fun, stay safe, and may the Dark Gods bless your rolls! And if you want to join the friendliest and most knowledgeable Chaos player community out there, why not join the Warphammer discord today? https://discord.gg/BB4Nrj9U
Thanks for another great article. What do you think about bringing belakor in Plague Legion? He is costly but there seems to be a lot of synergy in my mind.
1) can save you the 35p Lone op enhancement (for turn 1 anyway)
2) reroll 1s aura works for all daemons, including your nurgle daemons, would grinders with +1 to hit strat rerolling 1s sounds very solid. Or giving the beatstick Daemon Prince rerolls on his +3
3) can procc even more battle shocks, and as they happen in the battleshock step you can start by forcing two shocks from your army rule and strat and they he will make them take two more. Can even procc Cankerblight I believe?
4) Is enough of a beatstick that he can operate completely independently.
His +3 attacks go-turn*.
Also Soul Grinders, not Would Grinders, dumb autocorrect
Definitely viable, not sure it’s optimal but there are very cool synergies like you point out! You can’t go too wrong bringing new Be’lakor as long as he fits into your gameplan
Great write up Mike, thanks for summarising. Post some lists already 😀
Thanks David, also appreciated the kind words and hearing you and Vik’s thoughts on Daemons yesterday on the Fireside! Trust me you don’t want my initial lists, they’re always trash, check back in a few weeks haha
Great article. Beasts of nurgle also went up to OC3, for what it’s worth. The app also lists Rotigus’ flamer attack as now Strength 8, but that doesn’t appear in the pdf, so I don’t know which is correct. I presume if it was changed in the app, it is intended as an upgrade and just missed in the pdf.
Also, can’t believe they didn’t squat soul grinders!
Great catch Robert, I’ll update with the OC3 Beasts. I’ll play Rotigus’s flamer conservatively and be pleasantly surprised if the app is right. And yes, awesome to see Soul Grinders still kicking around! They can’t stop our crabs from living their best lives.
I’m 99.99% confident Changeling already had Stealth before. Kairos’s change is welcome because even though it’s not as reliable as a free CP, it’s a chance for an extra CP to plan your turn with, and not one that can be refunded but that you need to already have in the first place. Those Tzeentch chariot also looking very interesting now with updated melee profiles (which makes it even weirder that they thought about updating those rarely seen units while deciding to straight up remove the Slaneesh equivalent).
Demons feel in a great spot, it’s incredible to have literally 5 flavorful and good detachments, for free! GW is not afraid to really improve some datasheets (new Belakor is amazing), and hopefully they’ll reconsider the Slaneesh units next slate.
Of course all of this is offset by the looming threat of now knowing which model will be removed from the game next. Somehow I’m even more sad about Karanak than chariot (despite owning, and assembling 4 chariots). Chariots always felt a bit out of place in 40K, but Karanak? Really? There are 30 SM named characters that frankly all look the same, and they removed a 2019 model, with a unique design, and that is still part of a combat patrol box???!! It just creates so much uncertainty and who will be next. We’re all bracing for models like Blue Scribes, Epidemius or Fluxmaster to go away, but removing Karanak just send the signal that no model in untouchable, why buy any new model after that?
I did my part to be vocal about it, GW thank you for respecting your Demons players with great rules. GW, could you respect your demons customers by not taking baffling business decisions, or at least communicating better about it and show empathy.
Thank you for the platform Mike!!
Really agree with everything you said Vincent! Hopefully GW realizes that the more comfortable they make players with their faction’s future, the more comfortable they’re going to be starting Daemons armies and buying more Daemons model to expand their collections. Karanak’s removal is sending the exact opposite message and I hope they listen to the fans!
sounds like you wrote pretty much the same message to GW that I did “amazing job on the new rules, but for the love of the pantheon get your messaging and behaviour together if you want people to actually buy new models” (paraphrased)
guess karanak will get a suitable size base/skullpile to work as a khorne daemonprince on foot for me
Love the Karanak->Foot Daemon Prince conversion idea! It’s an awesome model and I hope everyone keeps using theirs in other ways
“that we’re a fanbase that buys models” this is something that worries me with their current approach of nuking models out of nowhere (it used to be more of a “if a model is out of production, rules will drop by the end of the edition or next codex release”, now it can be at the start of edition, codex release, codex release of a different faction, random mfm and not even models as new as Karanak are safe) and their unclear messaging regarding the future of daemons. This has led to a very mixed reaction to grotmas and LoB among my daemon-playing friends. We are all super excited for the new rules but nobody is talking about adding any models, everyone is just coasting on whatever they have since nobody wants to end with legended units. as someone with a sales background, daemons are already a nightmare to track for GW (which is probably one of the reason management is not the biggest fan of the faction), so it’s tricky for people without a platform to send the right message to GW at the moment, so thank you mike for talking about the issue in a constructive way
this comment was typed while staring at a half built chariot and the resin base I had bought for it…
As a slaanesh player, I am sort of ambivalent (of course) about the changes. I detest the removal of the chariots but in all honesty outside LoE I probably only actually used them in my lists a handful of times upon reflection, so I’m sort of forced to wonder if the change is as devastating as one would think. Of course, less options is not good, but still. I think part of the problem with chariots is that yeah they were tough, but only in relation to other Slaanesh stuff, which is, well, not as useful as I’d like because it would actually be really nice for Slaanesh to have some sort of quintessential ‘Slaanesh’ anvil unit that isn’t a Keeper of Secrets (more on her later).
I agree that the Slaanesh changes otherwise were disappointing. I think the LoE nerf was *excessive*. I think the seduction gambit should have been perhaps limited to a single eligible unit, but no other changes. Rerolling 1’s to Wound is imo functionally useless (literally 17% of the time). I would much rather they have switched it to re-roll 1’s to hit and 1’s to wound, but full re-rolls to wound in shadow of chaos mainly because of how ‘week’ our units are.
To me, the most crazy (bad) decision they made in terms of what to keep and what to throw out was actually the Tranceweaver. They *keep* the old Herald model that I’m not sure you can even get anymore vs. the chariots which you could still buy and were in plastic? That’s… well honestly I think that’s stupid.
And yes, I think Keepers are the biggest actual datasheet stuff up they have. Still no rule profile for Sinistrous Hand. Still no strength to actually give it a defined role. Many ways to get -1 to Hit now so I even think Mesmerizing Gaze is, not useless, but not as valuable. And of course, the 3+ armour save change for the shield is in my view just insulting. I actually think a 3+ armour save on a big creature like a keeper is pointless. Most people dedicate anti-tank to it, in which case they make use of the invulnerable. And even if the enemy applies you know, AP -1 mass ‘small arms’, then it’s pointless. I truly hate the change.
And Fiends. Rwoar. I actually like Fiends a lot, so now I’m super angry to their change and think they are basically useless in both 40k and AoS.
Honestly agree with everything you said John, albeit I was higher on the Slaanesh Chariots than you… not that it matters now. When Daemons players look back at 10th, Keepers are probably going to be the biggest miss in terms of matching flavor to rules
Great writeup Mike. Love your stuff.
I noticed the PDF shows Seekers with Fights First but the app does not. Any idea which one is correct? [or even how to tell GW?]
Great article as usual, Mike!
The nerf to slaanesh is just so lazy and sloppy it’s hard to stay positive for the subfaction. Losing a 5+++ on top of a 4++ is an effective 50% reduction in wounds (36 to 18) for a unit that saw limited play outside of LoE. That is an absolutely devastating nerf, and the -10 pts is just a slap in the face to go with it.
Also I hope GW comes to realize that randomly removing units from the game not only causes people to hesitate before buying new models, but also destroys the “collector” aspect of the hobby.
Well the rest of the faction is eating well thankfully. I’m excited to see what you come up with, especially in Belly Boys favorite fan club!
I… I just bought three chariots for my starting Slaanesh army two weeks before this dropped. And one of them was the exalted chariot, so that’s four boxes worth. I am looking into ways to cut them apart and kitbash them into other units, but damn does it hurt. What units are even good to field right now?